Mr.Richard Jewell and Mr.Watson Bryant interview
９７年３月、浅野健一氏、石坂安祐美氏、尾形有実子氏が、リチャード・ジュエル氏、ワトソン・ブライアント弁護士にインタビューしました。これは、その英語のインタビューの原文です。二人の了解を得て公開します。
Asano: Thank you very much for the arrangements, Mr.Brayant and Mr.Jewell. We are very happy to be able to interview both of you this afternoon.
Jewell: Thank you for the opportunity as well. What would you like me to call you?
Asano: Just Ken.My name is Ken Asano.
Jewell: Ken?
Asano: I have been teaching journalism for three years. Before that I used to be a Japanese News Agency reporter for 22 years.
Jewell: O.K. How was your flight over?
Asano: Very nice.
Jewell: I am very taken by that you have come all the way just to talk to me. That was very nice.
Asano: I have been trying to come just after the incident happened in August last year. Because very similar case happened in Japan.
Jewell: Yeah. I am very familiar with the gentleman who was accused of the sarin of the subway. Subway train. Killed a bunch of people.
Asano: One year before that in the local town, called Matsumoto City, north of Tokyo, seven people died by the sarin. We call it"Matumoto case."
Bryant: Happened twice.
Jewell: I was only familiar with the one.
Bryant: The one in Tokyo.
Asano: And I have been specializing on how to change the crime reportings of Japanese newspaper and television. And I thought Mr.Jewell's case is a typical one of bad aspects of free press, you know, so I came here to investigate why this happened and how we can prevent this kind of tragidy. This is my first purpose. Also I have interviewing the media people here in Atlanta and then in New York this weekend.
Jewell: Whom did you talk to in Atlanta?
Asano: I talked with the CNN public relations person, and the Atlanta Journal & Constitution.
Jewell: Did they talk to you?
Asano: Yes. Later we will explain what they said to us.
Bryant: They stinged control.
Jewell: Their damaged control rignt now. We will be interested in hearing what they said to you.
Bryant: We are (sueing) making you as the suspect. They are really sorry about how it happened. They just doing their job. I really know this.
Jewell: That is what they said to everybody.
Asano: I have several questions, and may I start?
Jewell: Yeah, sure. I can answer whatever you ask to.
Asano: The first of all, I will ask you how did you feel about the FBI investigation･･･mainly how the mass media's coverage on you.
Jewell: Well, I knew. I was going to be investigated. That was just the part of what the FBI does. Because I was right there and that was my where the bomb was. But I had no idea, not even the speculation of the idea that I would be pointed out as the person who did it, and I just totally blindside of me. I never saw that kind of thing.
Bryant: The FBI. How did you feel?
Jewell: How did I feel? Betrayed. I and my family were embarraced and himilated. I felt all my life was being betrayed, in the way it was. It was a lie. I could not do anything to correct it. So many lies have been told, that you can't even go back to correct them, because they are so many. They just built one on the top of another. It is very hard to describe the feeling, that your whole life is being manipulated by people who don't care about it. They are careless whether the information is true or not. That is just a story or just a news. They really do not care if it's right or not. What can you do? You know, I am just saying what can you do? You go out, you stand up and you say "This is wrong" "This is wrong", and you are playing right under with what they want you want to do. Because they want you to come out, and they want you to stand out and defand what they are saying, so they can ask you fifty other things that they want you to answer. So it is a game that they are playing. Almost.
Asano: So the first reporting was the Atlanta Journal &Constitution, the extraedition. This one is the first appearence of the coverage of this one.
Jewell: Where did you get that?
Asano: Somebody gave it to me.
Bryant: They are hard to get. They don't have it any more. They are't giveing it any more.
Asano: Did you see that? How do you feel now?
Jewell: How do I feel about it? (Mr.Jewell pretended to tear the newspaper) Big good bird cage material. That will fit on the bottom of the bird cage.
Asano: Did you see this newspaper?
Jewell: No,I didn't see it first. Watson told me what was on it. He called me on the phone I was in the FBI head-quarters when Watson called. And he goes, "Have you seen the paper?" "No." He goes, "Oh,this is what it says.
Bryant: They think you did it!
Asano: The same day?
Jewell: Yeah.
Braian: I got a newspaper in the Olympic Park.
Asano: About what time?
Bryant: 6:45,6:50 pm. Then I went to my car and I tried to find him. I called FBI at 7'clock. They told me that he was not there. I got home, I was on the phone. I have all of my bills, car phone bills,then I found Richard left me messages at home. I checked all of my messages, and the last call in my answering machine was from Richard.So Nadia, my assistant, told me to push *69 which is the way to get the caller ID on your telephone, because he did not tell where he called from and he was not at home. So I pushed *69 based on her advise, and the last of phone that he called from 10 minutes before I got home from the FBI. So the FBI lied to me about him being there. So I called them back and told them "I'm his lawyer,I want to talk with him now, I know he is there, don't lie to me any more", because it is unconstitutional. That is a violation of 6th commandment of the Constitution of the United States to deprive him of his right to counsel. They have to say "You have right to remain silent, you have right to call attorney, you have this,you have that." So they were interfering this constitutional right which means the interview wouldn't have been good any way. They picked him about 5 o'clock that afternoon,and he had already been there for a couple of hours. So when I got him on the phone,I said "Have you seen the newspaper?" He said "No." And I said "Well, let me read it to you." It says" FBI suspects a hero guard may have planted a bomb", and I said "You tell them who is in the charge of the interview", and he got the agent in charge. I told him that the interview was over,that he wasn't saying aother word to you, then I asked them whether or not he was under the arrest, and they said"No." So I told him to get butt out of there. The first time he saw the paper might have been later that night.
When I went over to his home and met him. So that is when he saw it and cared about. The problem we have with that newspaper is not that he was named.O.K., which there is diffrence of opinion over there whether or not people ought to release the names of suspects. I happened to be the believer of the first amandment.
If the names are out there, released the name, but I say you should report it objectively. You don't believe whatever the government tells you, if you are a journarist you have responsibility to check the facts. You ought to do little homework before you write an article like that. Now if you read that article right there, it says that Richard Jewell fits the profile of the long bomb. There is no such a profile. It does not exist.The best profiling expert in America who wrote a book about FBI says that there is no profile. So that newspaper article is wrong, because they're saying it fits the profile which doesn't exist. Then they go on to say that he saw a publisity, then they go on to say that he is frustrated white male. They go on to say that he had the bomb train ing. None of that stuff is true.
That article got two major errors in it. One is that he fits the profile of the lone bomber. Number 2, that he saw the publicity for his actions. By saying that he fits the profile, and the part of profile of consists of publicity, O.K.,you want to be a hero, and then saying that he looked for publicity, you provide a motive for this man to put the bomb there. He never saw a publicity, and he never had a motive for putting the bomb there. All he did was to get it.
So the article, while we don't disagree with the headline. I got the problem with what it says in here. That's why we will be in sue.
Asano: So it is very difficult to describe by words what you want to express your experiences.
Jewell: Just imagine if everybody even your closest friends,that happen in Japan, questioning your integrity saying "You 're a murder". I mean how would you feel? And everybody you meeet after that you don't know if they want to talk to you for what purpose. So much stuff goes through your head, you realized that they are trying to put you on the electric chair and kill you. They really don't care for the truth, because what they all are saying about you, you know. I mean just last nignt, I talk to a friend of mine in North Georgia whom I have not talked to since this happened.
He told me the FBI interviewed some of my friends there for 12-14 hours. Put in the room and just drill them, you know, just relentlessly. What did you do? Why did you this? You know,and just･･･it was crazy. Thare wasn't any evidence to point at me, so they went to every single person that was a friend of mine and after they through that,they just went everybody that even who know me. The people who really weren't friends, just who knew I was. They interviewed them for hours. What can you tell us about him? What type of person he is ?
Bryant: They weren't objective.
Jewell: No, they weren't. They thought I did it, and they will just looking for anything to help them to point the fingure at me.
Bryant: They pulled up anything dirty that they will tend to make him look like a bomber, a little bit, and they ignored everything that they made him look like a decent person.
Jewell: That wasn't even a decent story. They would change the story to be negative. I was the citizen of the year in my country in 1995, because I was on a high angle rescue team as a volunteer.
Bryant: Rescue people on the mountains.
Jewell: People who are going on mountain and break a leg or get hurt, we will go and rescue. You never heard that about me, but yet everybody out there knew it.
Asano: They don't write about it.
Jewell: No,they don't.
Bryant: They don't write about it down here.
Jewell: They don't want to know about all the good things, all the nice letters in my personel files. They have a complete acsess to my personel file, but you didn't see any that stuff printed. They knew about it. But they did'nt print any of it.
Bryant: That's a violation of the law.
Jewell: In the United States, it's against the law, at least.
Bryant: It's violation of the right of privacy.
Kurishima: The FBI?
Bryant: The FBI together.
Jewell: The press.
Bryant: But the media.
Kurishima: The press wants your private mail?
Jewell: The private personel file,where I used to work.
Asano: It's a kind of malice.
Jewell: It's actually an abscense of malice. I mean that's what they're going to say.
Asano: So they put up the scenario first. I mean like context of a drama. They put something suitable to their scenario.
Bryant: They need to tell a good story. Good story for them is the hero is the bomber. That's a good story. They reported facts that tended to support that fear. They didn't report facts that would have under mind that theory. When you ask him how did he feel, the thing is that you had two problems. The one is the FBI, and the other one is the press,O.K.? The bigger problem is the FBI because they can kill you. The press may make you cry, but they are not gonna kill you.
So the first thing to deal with was a deal with the criminal, potential criminal charges against him. That's what we really worried about. The press, I think, is more annoying. I mean it in a large way. Tell him about the people in your park a lot and fragteted on your mon.
Jewell: I guess you have seen the video of two hundred people around me just walk through.
Asano: You mean,the media people?
Jewell: Yes, yes. You know, they are all howling at me, touching me,hiting me and pulling me. When I came back to the house, and they 're all saying "Did you kill him? Did you boil these people up?"
Asano: They made a question like that?
Jewell: Not questions. Insinuation.
Bryant: Yeah, the guy saying "Did you do it?"
Jewell: Oh,yeah.I ask them out when I said･･･.
Bryant: They did the same thing to his mother: A60-year-old lady, works hard all her life, just a good hard working woman. Raise him to be a good man and they're doing the same thing to her. "Here's your son the killer." You know, hundreds of people around her, hurassing her about it. They drove her almost nuts. I mean, literally they hurt her. They took years off her life. She is not the same woman she was before this happened. It is sad. It is. That's why I do not have any feeling about busting them up which is what we're going to do.
Jewell: You know,it's really hard. I try not to remember a lot of it because it brings it back. I try every day to forget it, but I will never be able to. It's affected my health. It's affected my career. It's affected everything that was me. Everything it was me inside, it has changed because of this. I am trying as hard as I can to bring the old Richard back, but after what it has been done to me, it is very hard to do that. I used to be a very out-going person, was trusting almost to everyone, and that part of me has been permanently damaged. Other that I'm doing my best I can every day, put one step,one foot from the other and try not to dwell on the past too much. I try to look toward the future, but it's hard. So many people stumped on my guts. It's really hard.
Thank god. Thered are about probably 20-25 people who are warm. I mean,the people of my closest friends who really knew me as a person who stood behind me. Everybody else, the whole world was against me. That was first three days. Watson pulled in from day one. Then his family believed in him that he would'nt get in the middle of this unless he was the one hundred percent sure about it. His family pulled in behind him. So it is almost like, you know, building the family, building a group of people, you know, that I could start rebuilding people, you know, that I could start rebuilding my trust because there were very few people that I would talk to after that first day.
Asano: So Mr.Watson, Watson Bryant is the lawyer for him, just after this or he has been?
Bryant: That's me.
Jewell: We are friends before.
Asano: Before?
Jewell: We have known each other for ten years.
Asano: Oh,really?
Jewell: And then I called him up on the phone after the bomb went off because somebody told me about the book. I thought they are joking. And then I called him up because he was a friend and I knew as a attorney.
Asano: When was it?
Jewell: That was on Sunday?
Bryant: Sunday. The bomb went off early in the Saturday morning.
Jewell: I called him Sunday afternoon.
Bryant: He called me Sunday night, because somebody thought they wanted to write a book about him, because he found the bomb and he saved so many lives. So he thought he needed the lawyer if somebody wanted to give him a book contract, so he called me up. I laughted at him and said " yeah.right",and we laughed about it.
Asano: So you were friends before this.
Jewell: Yeah, we were friends.
Asano: So,you are very lucky.
Jewell: Very lucky. You don't get that lacky strikes may be once in your life. He is my lucky strike. Thank god for him every day. Pretty good fellar.
Bryant: Sometimes.
Jewell: Even when he is upset with me adout something, he is usually right. So he is the type of friend that even if he doesn't care it's gonna upset me or not. He is gonna tell me what he thinks. Let's say I'm not that type of person too, I mean, you might not like what I say. But if you ask me a question, I'm gonna tell you what I think. You might not like me for that, but you respect me. Because you know that I'm going to tell you the truth, at least for I think.
Bryant: If you are a friend, you will.
Jewell: All right. He is that type of person as well. And in our lives, that type of person is rarity in this country today. There's not many people like that, most people standing right on your face and then turn around and walk way. I mean, am I right or wrong?
Kurishima: Yeah, you're right. I agree with you.
Jewell: He might not like what I say sometimes, but he knows I am talking from the heart. It has been times that we didn't agree, on steady, but we both then will be honest. So I rather be that way than the other,because the other way,you don't know if somebody be honest with you or not. You know What I am saying? You don't know if they give credit about you or not.I'm proud,about you or not. This way I do. And visa versa.
He can call me at the middle of the night at two o'clock in the morning and say "Hey,I need you to come over to my house." Something goes wrong and he knows I do. I've already had to do that for a couple of times. I knew he would do that for me as well. But it's a really strange frendship, because there was a time when we didn't see each other for about probably 9 years or 8 and a half years, and I called him up on the phone and it was like 2 or 3 minutes and it was the time had just passed.
Asano: The questions is after FBI made statements in last October, by saying that Mr.Jewell is no more a suspect or no more in doubt.
Jewell: Yeah, I want to only ask you about that. In your papers over there, the headline that I was the suspect, that was big, right? How big was the headline saying that I was not suspect, anymore.
Asano: It was big.
Jewell: As big as the others?
Asano: Yeah, because the Japanese media is different from the U.S.. Because it's the U.S.matter. Maybe you can see the Japanese media's headlines. How did you feel about today's news media changing their attitude 180 degrees that now you are the victim of the press? How did you feel about that big change?
Jewell: Well, I was very unforgiving for what they did to me,and the only reason I talk to them was to let the American people know how I felt about what the media and the FBI done to me. So in my way, I really there're a lot of them who I have not spoken to since what they did to me, especially the local press here in Atlanta. There're a lot of National press that I have not talked to since this happened. And I won't, because of certain things I said and certain things I did, and now my attorney has talked to them, but as far as literally sitting down my career today, even it would never have happened.
Bryant: With whom?
Jewell: Some of the National Press, espesially some of the local people for what they did. I mean the local press here was relentless for like 6 and a half weeks,I mean, at least the National Press asked after the first week or so,they･･･.
Bryant: They came to the apartment and knocked on the door.
Jewell: Yeah, you know, they, the local press, had a press pool and the Nationals as well. They borrowed, subleased the apartment from a lady that lived right across from my mom. They sat there with sound dish, and about 4 cameras and every time the window opened and every time somebody came up at the front door, and every time somebody walked a dog go outside, or go to bathroom, there were 4 photographers there with camera.
Asano: They came to the apartment house?
Jewell: Yes.
Bryant: They rented it in the apartment that had a view of his mother's bedroom and front of the door.
Jewell: How did you feel if your wife went into bedroom and wanna get undressed and these cameras across the street.
Bryant: Even with the shades.
Jewell: Even with the shades. Down there they're listening, because they've got dishes that's aimed right out of the window. I used to go on there cut some out every for a month.
Kurishima: That's invation of your privacy? No?
Jewell: Yes, we think it is.
Bryant: We have to sue them, but it's common. It's unforgiveable, you know. They rented the apartment from the somebody else who lives there. That person moves out, they set up their cameras, and aim on right down at the front door and his mother's bedroom window and every time somebody comes in and out, they have taken pictures and video, and they are listening with the big ear for a month. I believe that is the invasion of the privacy.
Asano: In the Nation press, since a week or so around a week, but the local press for a month･･･.
Bryant: But they kept him off from the property. If the property belongs to the land lord, so Richard called up and started to yelling at the land lord, and the land lord made all the press people left. So when the press people left the property for the first three days, they could stay on the apartment property, and they 're all around the apratment. And then they had to leave, so they had to stay out in the street but from the street you couldn't see the apartment. So they got in the apartment next door, so they could get right there where they can take pictures.
Asano: So they borrowed.They rented the house.
Bryant: That's right. They rented another apartment of another building that had the best way. They picked up one with the best view, and the closest. And they gave a lot money to the people who live there to move out, so they could move in. So we will probably sue CBS, NBC, ABC, even our several of them of NBC, they haven't settled about his mother. This will be for his mom.
Jewell: This is because what they did to my mom.
Bryant: The only one won't be in this is is CNN, because we have already settled with them. But NBC foolishly did not get a release from his mother. They only got one for him, so we can still sue NBC for his mother for invasion of privacy. They won't claim. They will say that their first ammandment, right to report the news the freedom of the press, out ways her privacy right, and the court will decide. We will say the privacy right under these circumstances, a mouth!
Asano: My students have several questions.
Ishizaka: How was your mother and other family harmed by the reports?
Jewell: Well, the first thing that I really noticed, that hurt my mom was the night Tom Brokaw, the statement he made. Me and mom sitting there and watching television together. He made these statement.
Asano: NBC?
Jewell: Yeah, NBC, right. I just watched the blood flow out of my mom's face and she looked over at me and she goes "Where did he get all of these?" "Why they are doing this to you?" How do you answer that quest ion?" I really don't know what they ask that it is. They're crazy.
They're just, I do'nt know, why they are doing this. I have been a policeman for 6 years, and I have done a lot of things that my mom was always scared about. I mean, raded drug houses, you know, work in lural lural area by myself for a lot, and my mom was very concerned about my career, you know.
And for the first time in my life, when I found this bomb,everybody was saying what a good job I've done to get all these people off from the hills, so they didn't killed. For the first time in my life, I was able to really see that my mom proud of me for something I have done, you know, until I watch that flow out of her face when somebody that,see. She respected Tom Brokaw, and before this happen she watched him every night, and if Tom Brokaw said the sky is purple then my mom believed him. But when he said all the things about me, she knew that they won't be true, because she gro ws me and know what type of person I was. I mean, I just shattered and shattered her away that you can't put pieces that back together.
You know, other members of my family, my uncles and aunts, you know, people are considered the part of my family, just emotionally going on them. It just let from me to them and it just ruined their lives as well, because they were in the communities,where everybody they knew saying that I was guilty too, and then they stand up and say "No, he is nephew, and I'm telling that he didn't do it." So their friends turn around. So it affected everybody that was in my family. It affected my mother terribly. And what was more bad about it is they can be careless, if it's gonna hurt somebody or not when they say it. They don't care. I'm just one person. I'm just one middle class guy, and all these people are hard the big corporations and the big companies. It is like they almost have attitudes of "Well, it may have been wrong, so what."
What can he do to us? That's scarely. That's really scarely. I mean that's why even though a lot of people think I should just give up what I'm trying to do here which is to take big monsters.
Then you read this (newspaper) and think "He wanted publicity", "He wanted to be on T.V.", "May be he wanted it bad enough to put the bomb under the bench", you take that away. You take away the bomb training , you take away the profile,and you're left with the story is that FBI suspects that he might have done it. And that is it. There is noth ing else. Which means that you might not believe that he did it,but as you read it, you think "Now I know why." They're looking at him and think "That is the guy!" That's what's wrong with them.
Jewell: You know, if I was that kind of person, and wanted the publicity that I would have been to every T.V.station, there was at any existe nce of I. I would have been sitting next to Tom Brokaw---you know, What I am saying? I mean, you think they go"Oh, guy. You really did not do that. We had hand down."
Bryant: CNN had called him 20-30 times before he would returned one of their phone calls. He returned the call. It was because they said"Urgent, urgent. Please call us," So being nomal people, we think"Oh, gee nobody leaves the message that it says urgent unless it is urgent." Now we know the lawyers.
Jewell: All they wanted to do was to put me on T.V.
Bryant: Then he goes on T.V.after 20-30 requests from one stage so that's not somebody that, you know, that you go sort out the line writers. Anyway but that's the begining. You see, everybody else picked this up, CNN read this on the air. The guy said here on the camera, and read it. So that everybody hears these untruths. So then we picked "People magagine" that he see at the press interviews.
Jewell: Do you see how big the headline is? Look at this. I mean, when they cleared me, you know, how big the headline was? See those letters right there? That's about how big it was.I mean,and cleared part was down here at the bottom, wouldn't the top fall.
Bryant: And here is the Atlanta Journal. The Atlanta Journal tells you we are sueing them because of"this". No, we're not. We are sueing them because they did that and that isn't even the worst.
Jewell: The worst comes later. We had about this top, papers. Bryant: The worst serial murder in Atlanta history's name is Wayne Williams.
Asano: He supposely,killed about 30 children here in town.
Jewell: Over thirty. That was a couple of years. They couldn't catch him.
Bryant: So one of their writers, one of their columnist wrote an article that compare of Richard to Wayne Williams. The basic said"Here Wayne W.sit in jail, and here R.J.sits in his apartment." It is unbelievable . You read this, and go"Wow!" So that the thing is that the headline , they say is the bomber. You can see, if you put the guy writes the column everyday, so if you read the first column, you see"Bomber is the fool" And then, on the next day, the article is"Hero is the fool." He is saying that R.J.is the bomber. That's what it says.Then when you read down, you read about R.J.here and Wayne W.is in the prison. So we gonna sue for that. For calling him the bomber. Not because they made a miss suspect. They were reporting the inormation that the government gave them. The government is wrong.
Jewell: What's even worse than any of this is the paper knows that they were wrong.
Bryant: They are all fighting among sounds.
Jewell: Right. Insted of trying to correct it with us, instead of trying to correct it with us, people in Atlanta, insted of trying to correct it with people in this country and people of the world, and stand up and say "Hey, we made a mistake. We're human." Insted of doing that, they to cover everything up. You know, they had a 6th month anniversary edition of the bomb, and in the middle of the page of the interviews with all the people were the victims. That people who had been hit and shregged, and they interviewed the man whose wife was killed. Right in the middle of all of this, all the victims of the story, they got the picture of me, and under my picture they've got " R.J.reportedly makes multi millon dollar deal company with motive, or like some
thing like that. "Now tell me why in the would, they would put article in the middle of the page, full of victims, except try to make me out to be some dog, It's out trying to make money out of all these people's pains. That's just unexcusable journalism. What would you call it? Yellow journalism?
Bryant: Yeah,that is right. It's called yellow journalism.
Jewell: I mean, it is just terrible.
Bryant: Do you know about yellow journalism?
Asano: Yes.
Jewell: National inquire type stuff. This is suppose to be a respectable paper, you know?
Bryant: You do know this is only the newspaper, only the major newspaper around here. They bought all the others and put them out of business, so they are the only newspaper.
Ogata: What do you think about these articles after reading them?
Jewell: You see, this is the picture of･･･, I told you that I used to do rades and stuff? Drug rades stuff like that? This is the picture of･･･ this rifle, right here is AR15. I was one of the only two deputies in the whole country. I was like a tag rifle person for the police officers. I was one of the shooters. What happened was we've gone to this whole house back here behind the picture to investigate"Devil Worshipping." Do you know "Devil Worshipping" is?
Asano: What"Devil Washing"is?
Bryant: Satanist.
Jewell: Satanist. People who worship the Satans. We had the reports that they were using that building for sacrifices.
We went, 3 men me and two other deputies went, it was the way back in the Woods. We all walked through the woods to get to this old house from the 1800s. We just searched the house, looking for the stuff , and we found stuff and took pictures of it, just for our own knowledge. When we're coming out of it, each took pictures with the house behind us. One of the other deputies, somebody there I thought was my friend sells this picture to Newsweek and NW trys to make some more less the story about how I'm in one of these military group, and I'm nuts and it was crazy what they wrote.
Bryant: What they did was take this picture with him like that.And without any explations,make him look a bad guy.Then they show this picture, then they say "We want it make sure as the journal stand that he has been not accused of the crime that nobody is arrested, nobody is chrged him,and nobody is done anything."
Jewell: That was the part of my job, that was one of the thing I did was I carried a rifle. I was on a car and went in to do investigation. Bryant: We want you to know that he's not yet been arrested nor charged nor nor anything. It's not fair and it's not accurate. It's like pictures are gonna lie just like anything else can. That's the problem.
Ogata: Did your mother send a letter a letter to President Clinton?
Jewel: She has never send a letter. We didn't send any letters. She talked to them on T.V., News Press Conference.She had a Press Conferences and talked to President, "Mr.President, please clear my son's name."
Ogata: Is there any reaction from the Mr.President?
Jewell: No, none of we know of, We did that at the certain time when time when he has gone to the first day of Democratic National Convention to make sure that he did his attention and he didn't put it in the bottom shelf. To my knowledge, he never responded to･･･the highest person that I have responded to was the Press, security at the White House. Miss Jane Reno who is the attorny general for the U.S., responded too. Her comment was that they couldn't make any comments on that I go on to the investigation. That's pretty much summed up, the whole government response. I think that the Press secrretaty make something effect that he couldn't cmment on just as a part of investigation, something like that. So more or less, they were very aware of it, I mean, when you got a lady stands on television,crying in front of the whole world, asking for the President to take a hand and look into it, gets people's attention. Whether they comment on or not, I am sure that they've got a lot of people's attention. It was very hard for her to do that.
Kurishima: I saw that.
Jewell: Did you? What did you think about it?
Kurishima: It was a really sad moment when I saw that. I felt your mother's feeling on that day, because I had an interview with Mr.Jack M. previous to it, so I already knew you're innocent. So it was very emotional she has to go through that, even more.
Jewell: Did you see mine?
Kurishima: Yeah,at the hotel. Briefly.
Jewell: What do you think about it?
Kurishima: I already know because of your states? Somebody else did it for.It
was a good one,I think.
Asano: Japanese newspaper said that two days before the bombing, you told your colleague "Please take my picture, because I'll be famous in the future."
Jewell: Never happened. Never saw that, anybody.
Asano: Japan's Mainichi newspaper the national big newspaper.
Jewell: Watson! Write that down. We need to talk to them. Just kidding. that is a joke. I have never said that. What's funny is the goverment never would tell who said that. They were never be able to find the preson in this paper. Remember they said that they had a witness or witnesses･･･.
Asano: It is reported in the U.S.also?
Jewell: Right. That's all over the United States.
Bryant: That's another thing that is not true.
Jewell: That was a lie.
Asano: So you don't know why this happened.
Jewell: I know why. Because they wanted somebody to take a brain for what it happened, so that people in the Olympics will be safe to go. That is why it happened. They wanted to escape. They needed the scape goat.
Bryant: The prosession was that everybody was so afraid to go to the Olympic park at night, because there will be the bomber on the loose. By going after him, the way they did, everybody thought the bomber was caught.So everybody felt safe and they could go back and have a good time.
Kurishima: The FBI ask you, too?
Jewell: Yeah. I wouldn't take the FBI, because I don't trust them.
Asano You didn't?
Jewell: No, they lied to me. The lied to us so many times before they asked us to take a lot of tests. We didn't trust them any more.They tried so many times to deceive me and my attorny and people in this country and plus we had some evidence that they had temper with their a lot of test and the another case that they were all off with me, William case in Alabama. That we decide that we wouldn't take the FBI's poligraph test, how ever, the person who gave me the poligraph test, actually, I took three diffreent poligraph tests. Each test consists of three little test for each one test. I actually took the poligraph test for 9 times. All 9 times are passed.This test was given from the FBI agent retired with 27 years experience in doing nothing but poligraphs. Now his business and go on around and pruod of it. We grab the best person we could get that somebody that was ex-FBI agent. My attorny and me were exceptable that we had the background that was as far as his experience. I passed all three sets of test so we offer that as the evidence to the FBI that was not good enough from. It wasn't good enough that they wanna their own ex-agent gave me the test. They wanted to give it to me. So we wouldn't do it because we don't trust them.
Kurishima: I think Mr.Watson Briant mentioned that you maybe are sueing the FBI in the future.
Jewell: Yes.We will.We will be sueing several of the agents.
Kurishima: Person direct?
Jewell: Well, in this country, you can't sue the FBI and the goverment. The goverment is the exam for the lawsuit. You can turn around and sue the people who work for the goverment for doing their job. That's what we gonna do,so figuratively we are sueing the agents because they are violationg my civil rignts and because they are violating my mom's rights by doing illigal search on her apartment. And because the information that was in there, after David gave the searching was fabulicating. It's falses and half trues.So we will be sueing for that. So when you sue in the particular agents in the action of their duties while they were employed by FBI, then the FBI, of course, has gone back them up, so we've really sueing in the government.
Kurishima: How many people are you sueing?
Jewell: Three that I know about, and the FBI. As we learn more, as we get in the law sue, it will probably go up, it will branch up like an oak tree. Then you start with the root and you go up the tree as it goes up and the branches out. So higher we go, more people are gonna have their hands in the cookie jar. Does it make sense?
Asano: You mentioned the searching was fablicated? Can you exlain it?
Jewell: They were just had nothing to do with me and general. They just the stuff up.They would go to talk you and ask you stuff about me and instead of printing exactly what you said, they would take a part of the sentence what you said make it sounds totally different when they put it in line, so they were recording you, but they weren't recording in whole intent. They were only recording your words.There is diffrerence. You can say anything you want too, if you lie what you want to lie. But if you gonna tell the truth, then you need to tell the whole thing . That is what they did.
Asano: They didn't say the whole things to you or to your mother?
Jewell: No, I didn't do anything to her. It was going around the people that now me, the people that I had arrested the stuff like that, say ing" What kind of the guy is he?" and "Do you think he would do this? " The stuff like that. They put down that I had the bomb traing.Of cource I had the bomb traning because I was a cop, a policeman. Then they put down that I had a gun, so what I was instructor. I'm the police officer, so they shaped the stuff after David to make me look like the bomber,and then they took that in front of the judge, they say "Look at this." It was the conspiracy.
Asano: So you mean that the FBI agent cheated the judge to get
Jewell: The judge used be the U.S.attorny, so she was on their side at the beginning. So the judge supported to be neutral. Well, I don't think this one was. They probably run in there said "Time wasting. We gotta go search this guy's house." She signed I trusted them and she got burnt too.
Asano: Are you going to sue her too?
Jewell: I don't know. I haven't thought of it yet. You might ask Watson about that. I don't know if you can sue the judge.
Asano: What's her name?
Jewell: I can't remember her name. I'm sorry.
Ogata: I found the article in Japan Times of August 7th. saying that fragument of the bomb were found at your house. Is that true?
Jewell: No, it wasn't the fragments of the bomb. Let me see. Where is the picture of Olympic Park? The one with the tower. See this mental fence ? It's tin fence, made out of tin. Right here, where the bomb went off and when it blew up, it blew the fence, the power. When I went back the police officers, they gave me a couple of pieces of the fence after the FBI had finishied everything. They had a big power of trash, that was there to throw away, and the police officers walked over the trash power and gave me like 3 little pieces of metal. That's what it was. Then they came to search the hourse, of course, " What are you doing with this? You're not supposed to have this. This is the evidence ." I said "It's not the evidence, it's a trash. 2 or 3 officers gave it to me, down there." Then they wanted to know who those people were. "Who was that? They're not suppose to give you that." Well, I would not tell them, because they were my friends who would got into trouble, so I didn't tell them who gave it to me. Then they all got mad at me.
When I read the story to make me look bad, it's all lies.They came back later and said nothing about this.
Kurishima: Actually, you saved your frisnds'safe, but you are put on the paper. If you didn't do that, you probably got away with it.
Jewell: Well, I don't care, I mean after they have done it to me already. It was just something else. It's just shows what the paper would do,they just built one thing from the top of another trying to point a finger at me. They probably knew when they wrote this, that it was pieces of fence, but because it might make me look like the bomber. Instead of putting "the fragments of the fence", they put "the bomb fragments." It is the big difference, the bomb fragments and the fence fragments make difference. Now this article, it says the fake fragments.Maybe some
body gave him some of fragments. You know What I'm saying? How would you take that if it says "The police officer's friends gave Richard the fragments of the fence when he went down there on Sunday after the bomb ." That makes a big difference.
That wouldn't be a news,would it? But it would be a news when it was the bomb fragments. That's scarely. That's how they did. I don't have any bomb fragments. If I had them I wouldn't touch them because they were the evidence. The only reason they gave me those was the FBI and ATF had finished their investigation, and had started cleaning up. All of the thing I took were trash. So that was all I got from.
Asano: I think in your case that the FBI's investigation was wrong, and also the mass media's coverage based on the information from unidentified sources from the FBI. What do you think about this ?
Jewell: I think the FBI should put worry what the press does, and they should put worry what they gonna say in the press. The FBI's job is to investigate and to prosecute law. They are not in the press business. They need to stay out of it, because they are not doing too good right now, so they just quite talking to the press. It is against the law for them to talk to the press.
Asano: The investigations, especially.
Jewell: Exactly. Especially the investigation. Of course, they say that they don't know who leak it. That's all for convinient.
Asano: How about the press side? The press also, I think, they should not depend upon the police contract?
Jewell: Well, all I can tell you is what I know of. If I was in the press all of the sudden the FBI started leaking somebody's name, especially no one that I would know about the FBI how would it happened in the park. I would be very skeptical how reliable their information are. I look at it, and really research it well. I'll be very careful because when you're dealing with the goverment, you never know what their int ensions are.
Asano: So you mean, they lacked kind of skepticalism toward authorities.
Jewell: In this case, yes, I think it was convinient, I think they wanted to get the story before anybody else. Combination of several things all at once.
Asano: I think the U.S.journalism has a tradition if you compare with other countries, most skeptical to the goverment or aothorities.
Jewell: They believe everything in here,and sometimes you can't do that.You have to be careful.
Asano: The Atlanta Journal and Constitution says,"Of corese the individual integrity is important, but the safety of the public is also important . You ocassionaly make harm to some individuals, but if you want to maintain the public security, you have to report what is going on, and so on." What do you think about it?
Jewell: I don't call what they do reporting. I think they want me out. They made me the bomber from what they wrote.
Asano: "They" mean the press?
Jewell: They took the little information that the FBI gave to them, and they put me in the spot light. Then everybody else started to point fingers . I think a lot of people when I look you how this was written.
Asano: Do you think it's a crime done by the police?
Jewell: Oh, yes a crime. They ruined my life. They made up things, put them in the paper as the facts, and then they didn't have an atribution where they got those things.
When you write a story in Japan, if you get facts from somebody don't you have to a tribute that to someone or do you have say "Someone says that･･･", and then you write what they said. In Japan you don't tell who the suspect is?
Asano: Yes, they do. The Japanese press is following the American way of reporting.
Jewell: I didn't know that. In Canada, Australia and Sweden, I heard that in the case of individual is suspected during the investigation,the much of the reporting is controlled.
Asano: The local newspaper, they are reporting the fact that the FBI was suspecting you or or doubting you. It was true that the FBI were pointing you, so it was, you know, O.K.
Jewell: Well, but they weren't saying who were saying it. They didn't have any names for atribution.
Asano: So you are going to sue them, the local newspaper?
Jewell: The Journal? Oh, yeah. We have already sued them.
Asano: Oh,you already? When did you have it?
Jewell: Last month. We fought against the paper and Peedmond college where I used to work, the President Ray Crear. We are sueing him for all the nice things he said about me.
Asano: Where can I read this comments in the newspapers?
Jewell: You can talk to the internal more about that exactly why,exactly what . He's got a unole bundh of comments in the Journal and papers all over the U.S. I've direct control over those as far as which newspaper said what he said. There are so many. It's hard for me to keep upwith it.
Asano: The last question is that the U.S.media, like the Atlanta Journal & Constitution, say the way you report suspect before they are individu als under the police investigation, they say they will report they do now. I think the same thing will happen if big or unique crime happen. The second or the third Mr.Jewell will be born. I think the U.S reporters should change how they report crimes especially under the investigation period. What is your opinion about it?
Jewell: I agree with you. As far as their behavior is concerned, it is over reactive. I think it was lacking and fandamental restricting propert ies that press should autmetically have. They were over agressive reporting the story. And on your comments as far as if this happenes again to somebody, what should they do, well, as I said earlier, what should happen is that before they write the story, they should think about what happened to me. The reporters should think about what they did to me and that should be the little yield that comes up frush lights. And they would be wait a minute. Let's make sure we don't do this to somebody else. "It's not just for this country, but for whole world. All the reporters in the world should look back how they did the story, and check themselves", and say "Wait a minutes. Should we done in this way? What have we done to this man's life?" I would hope if this will happen to someone put in the position which I was put in, that next time they will think twice "What did we do to R.J.?", and they think about it. If you are journalist ,take extra minute, extra hour, and extra day extra month to get that extra confirmation of the story or to get that extra person to give them the con
firmation. Get the story right.
Asano: As you mentioned before the other countries like U.K., Sweden, they ristrict reporting indeed especially by names of the suspects before enlightment.When the suspect especially the normal person, not the public figure like ministers .
What do you think about this kind of standard guidelines which are adapted in some 20,30 countries not in the U.S.not in Japan.
Jewell: What does it hurt to not to do that? It doesn't hurt anything. You get the stroy of what happened. You just don't get the name. Is the name that important at the beginning of the story? Make sure that it is the preson that did it. Then when he's convicted then you can say it. Ready to begin the story, the newe is not the name.The news is what happened.Am I right or wrong?
Asano: I agree with you.
Jewell: Not like you knew who I was. The name doesn't matter. What matter was what they were doing to that person. See? My name wouldn't have make a difference. But by using my name, they ruined my life forever.
Asano: And for your family and your friends,and human beings.
Jewell: Let me ask you a question. At first, all the people in Japan probab ly thought that I did it. What do the people in Japan think now? Have they heard the whole story? Have they heard part about me not being the person who did it? Did they make a bigger news story about that first part as did at the first part?
Asano: The Japanese media did. But still the initial reports are much bigger. Some people don't need the second one.
Jewell: Right. Because the second one is weaker on the back page, it's not on the front pages, is it? I'm asking you. Why on the back page? I can tell just by looking at the story she has got. Some has big stories. This is probably the first story.This is probably when it was ended.(Pointing at the scraps one university student has in her hands) Is this at the end? Does this one that I'm not guilty? No?
Kurishima: This is not guilty.
Jewell: See how big those one?
(Compares the guilty and not guilty articles)
Jewell: See? Look at this!
Kurishima: "Oh my gosh! The security guard･･･" (Reads the title of the article)
Jewell: Look how big that is,now look how small that is. (Compareing the guilty and not guilty article)
Asano: You don't have this?
(Pointing at the newspaper)
Jewell: No. Never got one. Lawyers have one copy, but it's very hard to find. They don't want us to have that because they makes them look bad. Not many of those around. You see this is an extra newspaper. Not the regular newspaper. This is not just a regular extra,but they had another paper already running for that day extra. And they stopped the press threw all those away. This is actually the second extra for that day.
Asano: Second edition?
Jewell: Exactly! That's how rare that is. So it's very hard to find. Not many people have that.
Asano: So you agree with the Swedish or the British style of reporting.
Jewell: I don't know. I just don't see what's wrong with that. It's not the name that makes the story. It's what happened!
Asano: Because he or she is not convicted yet.
Jewwll: Right. If it's convicted or they say "I did it", or if they tell the police "I'm guilty" or "I did it" then they can print the name.But if they are saying "I didn't do it" or when the police think they caught the rapist or arsonist or whatever, why is the name is important? What's important is that they caught the person. Did that person fight tn fight or did that person give up or did they find a stuff at the house that's paunched to the person, but the person's name doesn't mean anything! It's not as important as people think what it is.
Asano: If his name is reported, he lose everything.
Jewell: You could. Just because what happened to me is more of the reason for anything for not to that. I'm ruined , but what hurts me more than anything is my mom, what happened to my mom. And my family tainted, my family name is tainted.
Asano: That's the same thing Mr.Kono is saying in Japan. He's also appealing the same thing as you said. That the media should be reflain from reporting the identification of the suspects.They should not print names until they're convicted.
Jewell: That's is no reason to after they are convicted or if they say " I did it, I'm guilty" that's fine. That makes another headline for all of them and that makes another big story, see?
They (media) has changed a little bit, because of this murder case in Denver the little girl? They were not quite as bad as they were with me, and the police didn't say much about who the suspect was, than they did with me.
Asano: Do you think so?
Jewell: Yeah, I think so. It was done diffrently at the beginning. Now it is kind of settled down, I have press conferences every other day and stuff like that but at the begining it was noticibly diffrent.
Asano: So, it means that the FBI or police diffence from leaking the stories, if you compare it with you case.
Jewell: I hope so,but a･･･
Asano: But the media side, they have changed and they have learned a little reason from your case.
Jewell: Well, I think it will short line, because it happened right after mine so I think they were all being cautions, but it's like a lesson that will short line, they will be down to the same thing in a couple of months. That's why I'll fight and because I'm quite sene. The only way you can have the big co-opration is by sueing them and takig from. They can careless about anything and all I care about is money . That's it. I don't care if they hurt anybody, I don't care if they ruin the environment, or whatever, I don't care. All I care about is Bank.
Asano: What do you think about the countries like in Europe that have press counsils or the press ombudsman systems, it's a way voluntary media countability.
Jewell: I don't know anything about it.
Asano: In the U.S.they don't have it.
Jewell: Don't get me wrong. I'm for the first ammandment freedom of speech. I'm for that, O.K., but I don't understand where freedom of speech,if could tell the whole story, but why do you have to use the person's name, until they're convicted. I don't see where that is a problem in this country, that we can't say, I can't see where the problems are that we can't do that.
Asano: So what you're saying is very universal and internationaly important for journalist.
Jewell: Right. That's what I'm fighting for. I'm not just fighting for the people in the country. This was during the Olympics, everybody in the whole would was here. Everybody in the whole world knows about this. I wanna try and make sure that they, the press and the police of the world,don't do this to anybody else again. That's what I'm trying to do. And that is what I'm trying make sure that they don't do this to anybody else. That's it. That's all.
Ogata: Is it true that you have signed the contract with the Hollywood movie?
Jewell: I haven't signed any papers or anything. People are talking to me about a movie, but I haven't decided what I want to do, but it would be Hollywood. I think the people of the world need to know true stor what happened, but I'm very concerned how the Hollywood likes to sketch the truth and change the story to what they want to. If I tell my story,I want to be historically correct so the people don't get wrong idea of what happened, so I'm very cautions as far as I'm talking to them about it. I want to make sure that if they do decide to do that, that's truthful and historically correct up to this point, they keep telling me that they can do that but nobody has put it in writing yet so because of what has happened to me I'm cautious,overlycautious. So until they put it writing I don't sign or anything. They are talking to me and to my attorneys but we haven't decided yet.
Asano: It is reported in Japan as if you have already signed.
Jewell: No, I haven't signed anything.
Kurishima: Your future business plan?
Jewell: I want to get back in to law inforcement. That's what I'm trying to do, that's my career. I'm trying to get back there ending my job, that's what I'm allowed to do, that's what I have done for about 10 years,that kind of work, the security and law inforsement, that's what I'm trying to do. Do you have any more questions?
Ogata: Do you want to see Mr.Kono?
Jewell: Yes.I very much would like to meet him. He is in the same boat as I am. Didn't they find someone else who did that?
Asano: Yes.
Jewell: They found people who did that. So it wasn't him. And his life is ruined just like mine because of what happened.I don't know how the people in Japan react to someone like that, but I'm sure he feels same like me. Whatever he goes,people are staring at him, pointing, whispering I'm worried about people, because my mom and I had death letters, people threating to kill us. So we have to be very careful. Sometimes people walk up to say hello or thank me or autograph me.
But you never know until they say their first sentence. Until they say " Hey, how are you doing?" or "Can I have you photograph?" Till they say that, you don't know if they are coming up to beat because one of their releatives is hunt, and still they think you did it, you don't know. So it's very scarely that at the first second until they know. So it's very scarely that at the first second until they say. Very scary.
Asano: I'm hoping to make some chance to let you and Mr.Kono to meet.
Jewell: That would be nice. I'll talk with Watson.
Asano: We have the winter Olympics in Nagano where Mr.Kono live.
Jewell: I didn't get to see much of Olympics, you know.
Asano: That's right! If Mr.Kono or some Japanese TV company want to meet or invite you to Japan, can you come?
Jewell: Well, I don't know I can go all the way to Japan. I have to decide that. But I do like meet Mr.Kono.
Asano: If you have chance, Mr.Kono will be happy.
Asano: You are the only son.
Jewell: I was gonna take care of my mom's surgery and plus I wanted to be the part of the Olynpics. So I come gack to be part of that.
Asano: Where were you before?
Jewell: Up in North Geogia. Up in the mountains.
Asano: Are you raised here?
Jewell: Yes. Went high school, elementary school.
Kurishima: Mr. Bryant was your school friend?
Jewell: No, not school. We used to work for the goverment together. Back in mid 80'. I was working for the smoll business administration. That's branch of the federal goverment.
Asano: In Atlanta?
Jewell: Yes, in Atlanta.
Asano: You were the federal goverment employee,and the polioce officer.
Jewell: Right.
Asano: Mr.Kono I have published a book,last Desember we're co-operating to change the Japanese mass mwdia's crime reportings.
Jewell: When you come through there(Japan),come over have and stant on America.
Asano: I think if Mr.Kono and Mr.Jewell co-operate,I think it will be a big movement to･･･
Jewell: ･･･to the world? Right?
Asano: Yes･･･.
Copyright (c) 1997, Prof.Asano Ken'ichi's Seminar Last updated 1997.10.14